Thursday, December 27, 2007

Is Rudy Giuliani Eligible To Run For President? Would He Have To Forfeit His Knighthood?

I found this amusing, as I had read somewhere recently that some people are actually making mention of this.

Consider this:

Rudy was Knighted by the Queen of England
February 13, 2002
from CNN: LONDON, England -- When Rudolph Giuliani received his honorary knighthood from Queen Elizabeth II on Wednesday, he joined an exclusive club with a membership dating back to ancient Rome.... Giuliani will, however, be awarded a medal making him a Knight of the British Empire -- an order dating back to 1917. He will also be able to use the letters KBE after his name.

Read Article 1, section 9 of the Constitution:
No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.
Apparently, some say there is a missing thirteenth amendment - called the Titles of Nobility Amendment (TONA) - one which has yet to be ratified. With 50 states in the Union, it would take the approvals of legislators in a minimum of 38 states to achieve ratification. This still-pending proposed amendment is known to have been ratified by the legislatures of the following 12 states: Maryland in 1810, Delaware, Georgia, Kentucky, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and Vermont in 1811, as well as by Massachusetts on February 27, 1812, and by New Hampshire on December 9, 1812.

One website,with some interesting background information, says this:
Twelve states ratified the amendment, not enough to make it part of the Constitution under Article V of the Constitution, which requires ratification of "the legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress."

According to President James Monroe's Secretary of State, John Quincy Adams, in reports dated February 3, 1818 and February 27, 1818, the following actions transpired:

Maryland December 25, 1810
Kentucky January 31, 1811
Ohio January 31, 1811
Delaware February 2, 1811
Pennsylvania February 6, 1811
New Jersey February 13, 1811
Vermont October 24, 1811
Tennessee November 21, 1811
Georgia December 31, 1811
North Carolina December 23, 1811
Massachusetts February 27, 1812
New Hampshire December 9, 1812

Connecticut May 13, 1813
New York March 12, 1812
Rhode Island September 15, 1814

No Action:
South Carolina

No Reply:

(See CIS at 478, Conklin at 125) A secondary source further claims that the federal government recorded that no action was taken upon the amendment by Louisiana. (See Virginia Commission at 65)

Because the amendment was not submitted to the states with a time limitation, it could still could be made part of the Constitution, if it were to attract twenty-six additional ratifications. The prospects hardly seem likely, but much the same was once said about the now-27th amendment, which is generally credited to have been rescued from obscurity by Gregory Watson.

The TONA — if ever ratified — would modify the provision appearing in Article I, Section 9, of the original Constitution. (see above)
Here is what it would say:

Titles of Nobility:

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive,
or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the
consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension,
office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king,
prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen
of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office
of trust or profit under them, or either of them."

In any case, TONA has not been ratified and is not part of the US Constitution. But we still have Article 1, Section 9.

Interesting, eh?
Some people think that TONA was proposed to prevent lawyers or judges with the title "Esquire" after their names to hold office....because that is some sort of English title. Apparently that has been refuted as a bogus claim. But amusing none the less. - Now how would that affect our government - LOL - Imagine government without lawyers in office. Actually, there are a few other reasons why this amendment was proposed. (here is an interesting law review article) Some people claim that the amendment was actually ratified. They say that for several years before the Civil War, a "Title of Nobility" Amendment was published in several Codes of the States and Territories. and then suddenly, it disappeared --- so there is controversy and mystery regarding this.

Oh Well, what can I say - I just found the whole thing regarding Rudy amusing.