Wednesday, December 17, 2008

Obama Natural Born Controversy Continues Despite Wrotnowski V. Bysiewicz Application Being Denied

The questions continue to mount - and even an AOL poll shows that the majority of Americans question Obama's natural born status, or at least think the questions have merit.

The Supreme Court is obviously unwilling to get to the truth, and have denied hearing cases. That is very troubling, but then again we have seen the court system deteriorate with rulings such as Kelo vs. New London.

The Wrotnowski V Bysiewicz case (Docket #08A469) was denied by SCOTUS on Dec. 15, but it isn't entirely dead.

Regarding Docket #08A469 -- The application for stay and/or injunction addressed to Justice Scalia and referred to the Court was denied. However, the Justices denied the "stay" but have retained the "certiorari". One must understand that Judicial review is allowed only after the Electoral College vote and Congressional Certification. The way the system works is that Obama is not technically President Elect until after the Electoral College "elects" him (no matter what his little placards say at the lectern when he speaks - there is no "office of the President Elect" either) and after that the Congress must approve the Election. It is time to contact your Congressman and express your concern over the issue of Obama's natural born status.

Demand that they, Congress, require Obama to unseal his birth document and prove himself to be natural born. How come no hospital in Hawaii has a record of his birth? Ask Congress why Obama has spent over $300,000 to fight to keep his birth certificate sealed! There are questions that need to be answered. Just because the majority of people voted for Obama does not automatically make him eligible to serve.

From ObamaFile:
Mechanisms exist under the Twelfth Amendment and 3 U.S.C. 15 for any challenge to any candidate to be ventilated when electoral votes are counted, and the Twentieth Amendment provides guidance regarding how to proceed if a president elect shall have failed to qualify.

Issues regarding qualifications or lack thereof can be laid before the voting public before the election and, once the election is over, can be raised as objections as the electoral votes are counted in Congress.

Therefore, this order holds that the challenge presented by plaintiff is committed under the Constitution to the electors and the legislative branch, at least in the first instance. Judicial review, if any, should occur only after the electoral and Congressional processes have run their course.

The federal government does not take official notice of the presidential election until the current Vice President opens the ballots on January 8th; the court is simply acting on this legal fact.
There are other lawsuits still pending and Philip Berg refiled his lawsuit with the Supreme Court as well.

Susan Bysiewicz, Connecticut Secretary of State, and CT Attorney General Richard Blumenthal are obviously more interested in promoting party politics than protecting and upholding US Constitutional law. It's a disgrace, but not a surprise.

Connecticut Secretary of State Susan Bysiewicz put out this press release:
“The Supreme Court of the United States has appropriately decided not to intervene in a case with very little, if any legal merit. Clearly, President-elect Barack Obama is a born citizen of the United States over the age of 35 and won a majority of the votes on Election Day November 4, 2008. Therefore, he meets the constitutional requirements to serve as President of the United States. Following yesterday’s vote, President-elect Obama won 365 Electoral votes – plenty more than enough to be sworn in as our country’s 44th President. This legal challenge was based on erroneous information and was legitimately dismissed at the state level. I am relieved that the justices of the U.S. Supreme Court found no reason to question the view of our own jurists in Connecticut, who found that President elect Obama was eligible to become president and as such had every right to be on our state’s ballots and certified as the winner of Connecticut’s 7 Electoral votes.”
Ms. Bysiewicz and AG Blumenthal - have you actually seen Mr. Obama's vaulted and sealed copy of his birth certificate? My guess is NO. Can you be absolutely certain that Mr. Obama is natural born? My guess is NO. Ms. Bysiewicz has NOT done her job, and neither has our Attorney General. The legal challenges ARE NOT based on erroneous information at all. The facts surrounding Obama's birth are being hidden. Ms. Bysiewicz might also do well to ask why her office also registered Mr. Calero (Socialist Workers Party) as a registered and validated write-in candidate for president when he wasn't even born in this country! He was born in Nicaragua. Obviously her office didn't care and they do not even check to see if the person has qualifications when they register. In fact, a friend of mine ran for Congress in CT and no one ever asked to see his birth certificate (or any documents such as naturalization papers) to see if he was a citizen! Everyone just makes assumptions. The Secretary of State's office doesn't even require proof of citizenship when you register to vote, even though the law requires on be a citizen to register!

Our elected and appointed officials are clearly not doing their job, and are more concerned with partisan politics. Is there anyone serving who has integrity or who cares about the oath they took to uphold the Constitution? Obviously not.

Mark my words, this issue will not go away until there is transparency, and Obama's documents are produced. Chicago shady politics has come to Washington, and perhaps that is the Change America will all be subjected to. They will want us to show them our documents and abide by the laws - but they will all be above the law.

Mr. Obama walk the walk, or keep your Change.


Anti Democrat said...

Liberals are an enemy to the Constitution, this country, and all freedom loving, hard working conservative Americans that are actually paying taxes.

When we freedom loving, hard working conservative Americans decide that critical mass is achieved and we've had enough of paying for the liberals' handouts, who's going to pay the bills? Soros' & Buffet's money will be gone in a blink of an eye and there will be civil war... that's my prophecy.

Jennifer said...

Why do you suppose nobody on Hillary Clinton's or John McCain's campaign teams ever thought to play the "Obama is not Constitutionally eligible" card? Hillary went so far as to try playing the race card -- remember when she said she should get the Democratic nomination because white Americans wouldn't vote for Obama? Yet neither she nor McCain ever breathed a word of Obama's alleged citizenship improprieties. Do you think Hillary and McCain are also part of this conspiracy?

smrstrauss said...

Re: “require Obama to unseal his birth document and prove himself to be natural born.”

He has proved it. He has shown, on his web site and on and, his Certification of Live Birth, which is a perfectly legal Hawaii document accepted by the US State Department for issuing passports.

Why, you may ask, doesn’t he go further and unseal the contents of his birth records at the Department of Health in Hawaii? Some call the contents the original birth certificate or the vault copy of his birth certificate.

The answer is quite simple. He cannot. The Department of Health of Hawaii does not issue copies of the original birth certificate any more. Nor does it issue copies of hospital birth documents. It ONLY issues the Certification of Live Birth (COLB), which is what Obama received, and which he posted.

How do I know that the Hawaii Department of Health issues only the COLB to adults requesting copies of their birth certificates? Because I asked the Department of Health (DOH) of Hawaii, which replied:


It is possible that we have records with more information but we issue only certified computer-generated certificates with certain necessary information to confirm a birth. We are the only agency that issues certified birth records for Hawaii
(Name removed)
End Quote

I have seen copies of Hawaii original certificates of birth on line (which include considerable details), but these were saved copies of the documents that were issued at the time of birth. The DOH of Hawaii does not issue these documents to adults who request their birth certificate. You can check, by asking your own questions by e-mail at

This guy puts it better than I can:

A posting from Andrew Walden, publisher of the Hawaii Free Press, a right-wing blog based in Hawaii.

Barack Obama: Born in Hawai`i
by Andrew Walden
It is time to focus on REAL issues, not imaginary ones.

A fairly impressive internet industry has sprung up claiming that Obama was born in either Kenya or Indonesia. This is nonsense, which distracts from the broadly unexplored story of Obama's upbringing. This kind of nonsense has emerged because the McCain campaign chose not to raise the many questions about Barack Obama's numerous hard-left alliances. Barack Obama was born in Hawai`i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu.

Obama's birth certificate posted online is exactly the same birth certificate everybody in Hawai`i gets from the State Department of Health. It is not forged. There is nothing unusual about the design or the texture. In addition to the birth certificate, the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser also carries an announcement of Obama's birth. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin also carries the same announcement. Both papers require submission of a copy of the birth certificate to print a birth announcement.

End Quote

Anti Democrat said...

Jennifer, oh pleeeaaassssse... that's so easy. McCain isn't natural-born either, and the Senate's declaration that he is (voted for by BO) has no legal weight whatsoever. Clinton didn't want to split the party and figured if she didn't win she could hold it over him, and she is, CLEARLY! A cabinet full of old Clinton people, plus she's not constitutionally eligible to be SoS, so to hell with the Constitution. BO says make it so.

BTW, what's the downside to questioning his status? None, as long as everything is legit, and he can prove it. No harm, no foul. If he's not, and he isn't eligible than he's a poser and usurper.

Anonymous said...

Judy makes it sound like these are the allegations of credible people. They aren't. They are the cries of a small fringe minority who simply cannot deal with the overwhelming mandate against their ideology that was cast on Election Day.

There are plenty of legitimate issues we can debate. But to play this card isn't sad.

It's pathetic.

Kristina said...

Well, technically, McCain is natural-born because he was born to US citizens. There is much more at question here than Obama's birth certificate. If his mother was still a US citizen when she gave birth to him, he was originally a natural born citizen. A person is considered a natural born citizen if they are born on US property, or if they are born to US citizens living abroad.

However, I question why he is not willing to produce his birth certificate in court? Plus, there are other questions surrounding his natural born status, like his status as a child. Did his mother give up his US citizenship in favore of his step-father's nationality? If so, he might have been originally a natural born citizen, but did that change? I'm not sure the law even looks at someone whose citizenship changed as a child and then changed back. It's a very interesting propopsition, if nothing else. I do believe the Supreme Court should rule on this.

I had friends who had dual natural born citizenship to the Philippines and the US because their parents were missionaries in the Philippines when they were born. However, when they reached the age of 18, they had to choose one citizenship or return to the Philippines. On the other hand, I knew a man who was born to US parents in Greece, who also had dual citizenship. Greece has compulsary military service and when this man went to Greece in the US military, he was arrested for not serving his time in the Greek military.

There are so many questions surrounding citizenship and it can be easy to get your citizenship all screwed up if you live in more than one country as a child. It's worth looking into.

Ted said...


Since the Supreme Court has now prevented itself from acknowledging the question of whether Barack H. Obama is or is not an Article II “natural born citizen” based on the Kenyan/British citizenship of Barack Obama’s father at the time of his birth (irrespective of whether Barack Obama is deemed a “citizen” born in Hawaii or otherwise) as a prerequisite to qualifying to serve as President of the United States under the Constitution — the Court having done so three times and counting, first before the Nov 4 general election and twice before the Dec 15 vote of the College of Electors — it would seem appropriate, if not necessary, for all Executive Branch departments and agencies to secure advance formal advice from the United States Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel as to how to respond to expected inquiries from federal employees who are pledged to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States” as to whether they are governed by laws, regulations, orders and directives issued under Mr. Obama during such periods that said employees, by the weight of existing legal authority and prior to a decision by the Supreme Court, believe in good faith that Mr. Obama is not an Article II “natural born citizen”.

Anti Democrat said...

Kristina, I don't agree with your definition of natural-born. According to the predominate reference book in use at the time of the drafting of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution was Law of Nations; or Principles of the Law of Nature: Applies to the Conduct & Affairs of Nations & Sovereigns 1759. 1st. English Edition. Emmerich de Vattel

Where de Vattel says: "The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society can not exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers..."


Therefore, based upon Vattel neither John McCain or Barrack Obama are natural-born citizens and are not eligible to be POTUS. McCain was born in Panama (not in the country, and not on a base), and BO's father was a citizen of Kenya.

There is a great write up on the Law of Nations here → “Among those citing Vattel in legal cases and government documents, were Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, James Wilson, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay, and John Marshall.”

BO is not a natural-born citizen of the USA regardless of where he was born, and thus is NOT eligible to be POTUS.

Kristina said...

Anti Democrat-That's interesting. I've never read that before.

I will, however, say that what I said was what I was taught in school. Of course, we all know that not everything that is taught in school is true. In fact, I take everything I was taught about economics, history, and government, in school, with a grain of salt.

I'm wondering, has the Supreme Court ever ruled on the definition of natural born citizen? Or, has it ever been defined in the constitution? I'm looking for something that has been definitively decided by the legislature/judiciary, not just a reference book at the time of the drafting of the Constitution.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not know the reference. However, over the course of our country's history, much has changed in regards to the Constitution, and so, legally (whether we want it to be so, or not), we have to look at the Constitution and rulings as they are now.

I am of the opinion that the more we get away from the Constitution, and it's original intent, the worse off our country will be. However, I am practical enough to know that laws change and if the law in place today says that Obama and McCain are natural born citizens for the reasons I mentioned, then that is the law that is in effect for Obama's eligibility.

Anonymous said...

John McCain is a US Citizen because he was born on land that was, at the time, occupied by the United States. It's like being born on a military base.

Not because he was born to US parents.

It's no suprise that someone who cannot understand something this basic thinks the SCOtUS should rule on this crap.

He can't bring his actual birth certificate to court because Hawai'i doesn't give them out.

Neither you, nor Judy, nor anyone has ever...EVER...had to use their actual-this-is-the-real-McCoy-original-copy of their birth certificate for anything. Ever. At all.

You get a certified copy, notarized, from the department of health, and that's it.

He has a driver's license, a passport, a social security card, and probably a billion other documents that require a birth certificate in the manner he presented it.

This is total crap. It's not a controversy. He's a US citizen. That's it.

Judy Aron said...

Anonymous - plenty of illegal aliens have drivers licenses and social security cards. That proves nothing. Have you seen Obama's passport? Neither have I. That actually has nothing to do with his "natural born " status. Plenty of people who are not "natural born" have US passports. It is claimed that he also had one from Indonesia.

Tell me - how sure are you that he is "natural born" - have you seen the proof first hand? No - and neither has Howard Dean or any of his party faithful - nor have any of the Secretaries of State. Everyone is taking everyone else's word for it.

It is very simple - he can have his birth certificate in Hawaii unsealed and show it to the world - The long form is what is important it has all the information.

Can you also explain why NO hospital in Hawaii has a record of his birth? NONE! That doesn't bother you?

Can you also explain why Obama is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight having to show his documents - why doesn't he just show us all?

And sorry - you are wrong! I HAVE had to show my original birth certificate - long form - with seal intact to get my passport.

I understand what is basic here. There are qualifications to being president and our president elect is refusing to give proof to refute allegations against his "natural born" status. My question is WHY.

The news reports have many of the facts wrong - as usual - in order to bury this story. They know the constitutional upheaval and resultant unrest that Obama's illegitimacy would cause. The fact of the matter is that if he is indeed illegitimate regarding his "natural born" status then every single document that he signs while in office becomes null and void. I'd say that is a huge problem for this country.

You may think this is "all crap".. and that is YOUR prerogative - I just want to see proof positive that he meets ALL qualifications to be POTUS - I don't think that is so wrong to ask.

Show me proof that he was actually and undeniably born in Hawaii - so far there is none. No hospital records, no newspaper announcement, no long form birth certificate and Obama won't even release his applications to college for us to see if he was admitted as an Indonesian student in order to get financial aid.

Tell me why he went to school in Indonesia and was listed as an Indonesian citizen!? Tell me why he traveled to Pakistan at a time when Americans were banned - what passport did he use then ?

There are lots of unanswered questions and all I am saying is that those questions need answering. Where is the transparency that he subscribes to?

You don't know and neither do the people who have been asking the questions.

Anonymous said...

Er... Why does this matter? He's definitely American and probably going to be a great president, why pay attention to technicalities? This boggles the mind.

Judy Aron said...

Anonymous.. Why does this matter? why pay attention to technicalities?? You mean we ought to just disregard the Constitution and what it says POTUS qualifications are?? Gee, how about we get rid of free speech and the right to assembly while we are at it. I suppose that would be ok since we have disregarded property rights and habeus corpus as well as privacy rights.. How about we just burn the whole document and just forget the whole matter.

When Obama swears to protect and defend the Constitution on Inauguration day it will be a complete joke.

Yes, it boggles the mind.

mccommas said...

Kristina is right.

It does not matter where in the world a person is born. If just one of his parents is an American than he is one too. McCain certainly is an American since both of his parents were. He could have been born on the moon and he would still be an American.

That sounds reasonable to me smrstrauss -- if it is really true. I still wonder however why they won't release it. If it still exists, why not release a copy? I smell a rat. The reason they are hiding it may not be for the reason we think but the situation is definitely fishy.
It is a reasonable request considering what is at stake.

They should release it.

Is there some question of whether Obama's mother was not an American? If she was an American and did not renounce than so is he. As in McCain’s case, It makes no difference where he was born.

You are also a citizen if nethier of your parents are citizens but you are on American soil. That is something that can be changed with ordinary legislation and frankly I wish they would. I am sure it is no where in the Constitution that just because you drop a baby here, it’s an American.

Personally I think that change is a long time in coming.